Could someone tell me what the neck relief and standard action height would be on Gypsy Guitar at the moment my relief is 0.10 at the 8th fret with capo fitted at first fret (Think this is the right way to get correct set up) And my action height 12th fret is 2.5. m.m. bass side and 2 m.m. treble side same as my 175 D Second question ? my tailpiece allows you to fit loop end or ball end strings is there any difference in the sound or playing between the two,I have been playing straight ahead jazz and I am new to Gypsy jazz so please excuse basic question

Hey Topcat
The relief on the neck of gypsy guitars has a large effect on the sound, I would imagine that with 0.10 you would be getting a bit of string slap and not much volume. If you increase the relief you will notice that the sound becomes more bell like and there will be an increase in volume, although if you go too far you lose that gypsy sound.

On my Dupont VR the neck relief is about 0.20 and the action at 12th fret is about 2.5. I have had a few Gitanes in the past and had a larger relief and higher action as I needed more volume. I used to use 11 gauge Argentines exclusively but have recently changed to 10s as the small amount of volume you lose in the fundamental note, you gain in high harmonics, and the sound, on my guitar anyway, carries better. I am playing mainly acoustically on gigs and need the projection so I am a bit fussy about all of this. Bear in mind all guitars are different and you will just have to experiment.

There is a thread here that you may have already found

gypsyjazzworkshop.com/GJW/index.php?opti...mp;catid=9&id=61

To my ear the loop ends are better but it is hard to say, I could be imagining things, but I do know that the loop ends are easier to change, besides I hate that noise the ball ends make when you are feeding them through the hole :-)

Anyway I hope this is of some use.

Regards
Leigh

Leigh thank you so much for your reply as I said I am new to Gypsy Jazz after playing straight ahead Jazz, The one thing I find is that it is so hard to get that Gypsy feel ! much of my playing appears to come out like smooth be-bop lines great if you are doing Charlie Parker Joe Pass Tal Farlow type music but it just dont sound right with the pumping beat of Gypsy Jazz, its the little ornaments that make it get just one right and its instant Gypsy Jazz,Have dumped my Jim Dunlop Jazz 111 for a Wegen Fatone 5 m.m. what a monster ! and have moved into a caravan complete with horse He ! He ! Thanks Topcat

Hi TC
the deal with gypsy jazz is that it is like an accent and if you are around it enough you start to pick it up by osmosis.

Don't bother with tab and transcribed solos for a start, the best way is to get in and work out solos by ear. When you have worked out a phrase find out what chord it works over then blatantly put it in a solo over a play along or in a jam. The thing is that your ear picks up all the subtle stuff that never makes it to paper. Don't write it down as you need to develop a better musical memory to store all the licks in your head. The use of the correct rest stroke picking also puts the rhythmic emphasis in the right place and leads to a much more authentic sound.

My career has been mainly as a straight ahead jazz player (leighjackson.com) and it took a while to change my technique, now I am reasonably happy swopping between the two styles.

Good Luck and don't forget to feed that horse:-)

Leigh

Your observation regarding accent and osmosis are very true, if you want to learn a language there is nothing like living in the place it is spoken,after getting overcharged and ripped off in a few shops you start to learn real quick ! I live in the U.K. and got to this site via your great entry on U Tube. Sometimes I think your ears can get sort of lazy I played in a pit orchestra and backing cabaret all the parts were written down and there was no room for impro great for your reading skills but not so great for creative playing, quess you have to get a balance between the two. One player who makes me smile is Matelo Ferret he throws in every little trick including the kitchen sink and sometimes is just pure syrup I have a record called Matelo Ferret Hot Club Records Vintage Guitars Volume 6 it has a instument called a cymbalum on it have you heard it ?

Hi
I have just bought and viewed Jamie Boss's DVD Setting Up the Gypsy Jazz Guitar which was a great help in improving the sound and playability of my Shelley Park guitar, not that is was terrible but I had put on lighter strings!!
I learnt many years ago to file frets but getting an accurate and recommended measurement on the relief was useful(he recommends 0.010-.015). The max I could get with 10s on was .012 but this initial set up made a great difference and replacing the bridge really brought out the tone of the guitar.

The DVD cost US$26.95 - elderly.com/videos/items/720-DVD2.htm

It covers history, tuners, the nut, the fretboard, the bridge, the tailpiece and the set-up.

Although it didn't tell me all I needed to know - I had to bend the ear of my luthier friend for some of the bridge work - I learnt a lot and Jamie is a clear presenter and had a demo guitar with the back off and explained some of the differences in the design and the bracing.

Good value - I'd give it ****+ and I reckon it would help someone with little knowledge of guitar set up to make some good decisions or ask questions when looking at a guitar to buy. The first Gitane I looked at on appro I got checked out by a luthier as I was suspicious that there was not enough break angle to lower the action and still maintain pressure on the top. He confirmed that and we sent it back. Jamie talks through many of the issues that would affect your choice of guitar.

Take a look and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

Nigel

I wonder how many gypsy players do use 10 gauge strings I find them to light for my guitar and have to use 11s do you think the mass produced guitars eg Saga Gitane are more suited to the 11s

I don't have enough experience of the Saga guitars but the scale length will always have an influence on what strings will work or not. My guitar is long scale and seems to cope fine with the lighter strings after the relief was set. I played a D hole Gitane with 10s on which is shorter and it felt really floppy but it may not have been set up properly. Jamie Boss on the DVD says he plays the D hole now cos he is 60 and doesn't have the strength in his hands that he used to. Maybe why you see a lot rhythm players playing the D hole??
I did an acoustic gig recently with double bass and flute and my guitar stood up well in terms of volume balance with the 10s on and that was before the recent tweaking.
If you lighten up and don't adjust the neck you will probably think your guitar doesn't like the lighter strings.

Hope that helps

Nigel